Guests vs. Hosts
I just got done sending out a Cyber Update to the Crossroads flock. In it (it was all about Easter) I asked everyone to do several things in preparation for Easter. One "biggie" I asked for was for our regular attenders and members to "give up their Sunday morning seat" to make room for Easter guests. I suggested the option of Saturday night at either 5 or 7 pm...or to come on Sunday and sit in the overflow room (multi-purpose room) and watch/participate in the service via a live feed.
The one word for all this is SACRIFICE. It's something the CR flock does often and does well.
It got me thinking about a couple of terms--hosts and guests. We who are inside the church must see ourselves as hosts and not as guests. We exist to serve. When we get that backward (and start seeing and acting like we're guests) we cease being the Church of Jesus Christ and starting being the Church of Me.
God doesn't bless churches whose insiders act like guests. He blesses churches full of hosts--full of people that act selflessly like His Son.
Guests vs. hosts...what do you think?
The one word for all this is SACRIFICE. It's something the CR flock does often and does well.
It got me thinking about a couple of terms--hosts and guests. We who are inside the church must see ourselves as hosts and not as guests. We exist to serve. When we get that backward (and start seeing and acting like we're guests) we cease being the Church of Jesus Christ and starting being the Church of Me.
God doesn't bless churches whose insiders act like guests. He blesses churches full of hosts--full of people that act selflessly like His Son.
Guests vs. hosts...what do you think?
posted by Pastor Phil Print at 7:46 PM
19 Comments:
while i understand what phil is driving at & do agree, i think we also have to ask ourselves what the function of the body of Christ's meeting together under a roof is. i don't believe that our gathering together at cr's location constitutes the church of God, in the biblical sense of the word. ideally, believers should all be involved in making disciples of those in their social circles.
so, some groups view their weekly meetings as a refresher to their daily grind of being about the Father's business. others view it as the sole place where people come to know God.
for instance; at the recent revival in pensecola fl, people were coming from all over the world to attend a service. their policy was however that congregants are allowed in first, since they have been key to it's success from the beginning. this did not stop people from getting saved/the Spirit from moving. it did however demonstrate the pastor's love & dedication of putting his flock first.
I would argue (wow - that's a shocker, huh!?!) that Pastor Phil asking his congregants to 'serve' others IS putting us first. The Bible states that whoever is first will be last and whoever is last will be first - so Pastor Phil is presenting a way for us to do this - serve others.
For me personally - that's a tough one, however. I'm pretty attached to the Sunday morning Easter service thing. I'm afraid that if I DID go to Crossroads on Saturday night I would still go to Church someplace else on Sunday morning. I'd have a weird feeling all year if I couched it on Easter Sunday!
One thing that I KNOW that we can and should do is to NOT take the aisle seats if the rows aren't full. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal - but it can be tough for visitors to squeeze by folks and sit in the middle of rows. Come on people - SQUEEZE TOGETHER!!
[Just more proof that CrossRoads is truly in need of a larger place of worship]
leave it to @#%@% humble pie to infer that my comment was an inditement against our pastor! just kidding dude.
i guess it could've came across that way.
it was more or less an attempt to explain the 'everyone is an evangelist' point of view.
my comment probably didn't belong in the context of easter & serving.
i'll go back to not blogging now.
Don't YOU go anywhere Passionate. I'm still mourning the departure of Warrior and Teacher. I really DO like opposing views (although as I've said before - you and I probably agree on 90% of things. We just seem to find the other 10% more fun to discuss!)
thanks humble bro, i toally agree with you. actually i look forward to your prompt responses. you must be as bored as i am! however i do take exception to lumping me in with the the hard guys (no offense warrior & teacher but you are hard guys). come on, even my handle is meek...kind of feminine. may be i should switch to something like OMEGA MAN.
since you've invited me, i should probably clarify what seems like an absurd 1st comment. so, put this in your bong & toke it:
the prebytery's original calling was to 'train the body to do the work of the ministry'. what we now have is clergy & lay people. the laypersons service consists of greeting people at the doors, making room in pews & serving tea & crumpits. the clergy does all the preaching, teaching & making disciples. is it any wonder why our modern 'church' is so apethetic? sorry, but this subject stirs me every time it's remotely alluded to.
I have to say that I actually agree with you on this one. It's interesting though, whenever I get on my soapbox about how 'serving' in church is really just 'serving' yourself (your own church family) and not really 'serving' as Christ instructed, my wife - who is MUCH more intellegent then I will ever be - reminds me that WE have kids and we LOVE the children ministry. And that we LOVE the coffee and cookies and such and partake just about every week. And that we like the music and appreciate the friendly faces.
And then she says something like "and exactly WHY do you think that these folks that are 'serving' in Churh AREN'T doing the other things outside of Church? At which point in time she convinces ME that it's probably best to do both - serve our Church family AND serve those outside of the Church.
By the way - Sanctuary has been doing an ongoing 'Salt and Light' series that focuses on ministries outside of the Church walls. And rumor has it that Pastor Phil has a series coming up that will incorporate these types of ministries as well....another reason to love CrossRoads I guess.
PS - is there anyone else here, or is it just you and me Passion Man?
humble, ya got me again!
it's not good for man to be alone. my wife keeps me in line regarding practical things as well!
OK, I've lurked on this thread long enough (long enough to see it morph, but that's OK)... and I agree with much of what's been written concerning serving. I was at a conference last May (turned out to be a Lutheran pastor's conference, of which I'm neither...). The speaker was going on about how people "out there" respect Christ, but don't like his followers. Yea, heard it before... This time, something inside clicked (or snapped...), and I got up and said that it was obvious (to me at least) that people "out there" wouldn't feel that way if Christians actual acted more like Jesus (and Mother Theresa, and lots of other examples), and less like a bunch of counter-examples I indiscretely mentioned. Then I pleaded with the pastors there to actually train the body of believers to go and serve like Jesus (remember the footwashing in the upper room? What is our current-day equivalent?). There was lots of agreement to my comments.
Well that's well and good, I got to say things I thought sounded good, but it doesn't matter until I personally get out there and serve those outside the walls of the church.
Putting my time where my mouth is, that's what help start Praxis (shameless plug: thepraxispath.blogspot.com for details on what it's all about). I know others who are serving others "outside" in very cool ways too. My problem was that I was using the lack of a "program" as an excuse to not do something. If you want ideas, come to the Praxis table after Sanctuary, or put a comment on the Praxis blog.
Praxis isn't an ministry with an org chart and a budget and structure and all that. Instead, it's becoming what can be considered a spiritual discipline, putting oneself in front of God and asking to God to work in your life and in the lives of others...
Oh, now that I'm on a roll, some have made comments about what Praxis does as not being "efficient". True, but it misses the point. Brad often says that we're not called to be efficient, but to be effective. True, but it's not the whole point. Unless you start meeting people in need face-to-face and listening to their stories (it's taken me a while to learn to listen and not talk, but if I can do it (ha) ), you don't really know them. Listening to people on the street changes you, and giving them space to unpack their spiritual/emotional baggage is a grace they don't often receive.
And it humbles you. And it softens your heart. And you pray a lot more than ever before.
OK, 'nuff said.
Blessings all...
Thanks for responding, surfin-usa.
A couple of points to clarify before I address whawt I sense is your main concern, so hang with me a minute: first, the English language is funny, with it's indiscriminant second person pronoun. When you say "seekers as you call them", I don't know if you're talking to me personally, or the general CR congregation. If me personally, then I have to clarify a little bit: the people that Praxis is serving aren't the stereotypical "seeker". They are desparate people (when I said "person on the street", I literally meant a person living on the street, and shelters, etc...) They aren't likely to ever make it down to Cottage Grove to visit CR. But you see, we're not serving them as part of a program to grow CR, but to serve Jesus who calls us to follow His example.
Now, not serving people under our noses, for the four years before Pastor Paul came on staff, I was heavily involved in the Congregational Care ministry here, as were ~ 150 other CR attendees. There is a lot going on caring for the people inside the walls. Is it perfect? Of course not, but as I've said elsewhere, if it were perfect we'd have no reason to serve God.
Now, to your main point: I agree with you about addressing jlresource_lady's concerns. I wasn't in any of the regular services that weekend (I was serving in Children's Ministry, and I regularly attend Sunday night), so I can't comment directly on what happened. However, I can guess that if the regular Sanctuary worship was repeated on Sunday morning, some of our brothers and sisters would be physically uncomfortable. The Bible says we are to bear with one anothers weaknesses: often we translate that to spiritual weaknesses, but I firmly believe that it absolutely pertains to physical weaknesses as well (no offense to jlresource_lady: hang in there with me...), whether it's members with less than perfect eyesight, or babies that really shouldn't be exposed to high flicker-rate images, or people with ears that are less than resiliant. We absolutely have to be aware of our brothers and sisters and adjust to them (for example, see Paul's teaching on limiting our own freedom for the benefit of those around us).
As an analogy, think back to the big-hair bands of the '80s. The concerts and the sounds kept getting bigger and louder. Then Clapton shows up with a guitar and a stool, and the whole "un-plugged" thing enters the mainstream (ya, I know folkies have been doing that forever, but this captured the mainstream imagination...). What I'd love to see is a CR-Unplugged service. Now that would be more appropriate for people for whom a Sanctuary service is literally painful. Not necessarily a weekly event (because I know it won't happen), but maybe for special situations like _Baby-Dedication Sunday_.
OK, again, 'nuff said. Thanks surfin-usa for keeping jlresource_lady's concerns on the front burner. You were right on!
Blessings all...
Argh, again in my rush to type, I mis-type.
At the end of the second paragraph of my post above I was intending on saying "seek God", instead of "serve God": that's a somewhat different angle on things. Sorry all...
Surfin-usa, your jab at the CR leaders was unnecessary. But it illustrates my point in the "label" blog--which was to "look before you label". You labeled the CR leaders "unconcerned" about the woman who posted #17. You said we care more about seekers than those in our flock. Here's the scoop: Brad responded to each of her concerns (off-line). We didn't feel like blogworld was the appropriate place to address her hurts. She WAS addressed in a timely fashion. Look before you label. Can I ask you, surfin-usa, do you attend CR? Do you have any clue how we care for those within our church?
Look before you label.
OK - neutral corner fellas.
Let's keep a few things in mind. I've known many pastors and the one thing that most of them have in common is their deep and personal connection and commitment to their churches. So rightly or wrongly - they tend to be very sensitive to criticisms of their church.
Imagine inviting someone over for dinner - and at the end of the evening they run down the list of everything that was not up to their expectations:
"Food was too hot, chairs not comfortable, your children didn't behave, the decor was hideous..."
Again - you might not THINK that pastors should feel that way - but most of them do.
Now, having said that - Pastor Phil has opened up a blog that opens up a 'sounding board' for critique. (A lot of pastors would say he's nuts for doing so - but he did) As such, criticisms WILL come. Some justified and some not. That simply comes with the territory.
Pastor Phil 'could' have simply said that he'd talked to her. And Surfin - you 'could' have simply ASKED if anyone had. Instead you assumed and scolded the pastors and the other bloggers (?!?) for not responding.
Anyway - deep breath everyone. Rule of thumb - Blog ONLY what you would say and HOW you would say it face to face.
amen to that!
i appreciate our pastor's giving place for pencil-necked, easy-chair theologens like me!
Thanks Humble Pie for dishing me a piece of "humble pie" (oops there goes those "..." marks again). It was obvious to me and everyone else in blogworld what Surfin-usa was implying. I want to humbly ask the question of Surfin-usa again: do you go to Crossroads Church of Cottage Grove, MN? Easy question...
Regarding Surfin-USA's "posts about sports and silly bantering," perhaps referring to my pastoral basketball comment.
I think the Crossroads pastoral staff routinely gets hammered in the blogs (not in the alcoholic sense, although some of the posts might drive a person to drink.)
I am astounded at how, er, um, prickly people can be when protected by the anonymity of the Internet, as opposed to person-to-person conversations. And so, I deliberately set out to lighten the mood of the blog with humor.
It's entirely possible that non-believers are reading these posts and are forming impressions of who we are at Crossroads. Every post should be written with this in mind: What am I saying to the outside world about people who follow Jesus? Am I demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit and Christ's love for others? Am I a person they might want to sit next to at Crossroads some week-end?
If the answer is "no," then instead of posting something that leaves a bitter aftertaste, take up the issue with the staff in person.
However, I still think I could take on the Fab 5 in basketball and win. Me and my perimenopausal, Bundt-baking, scrapbooking friends. Also known as the Flab 5.
belle-south, may your tribe increase! You are a breath of fresh air in the blogworld. Thanks. And, if your team (you used the term Flab 5) want to take on the staff in a game of hoops, we're in. Name the time and the court. You've done enough trash-talkin'...it's game time.
Liberalthorn (I love the blog name by the way) I'm trying to get to your 'journal' but not having any luck. I'm very interested in reading more about your thoughts on this.
It should go without saying that if some of us more regular bloggers on this site are creating a negative vibe about Crossroads (especially for nonmembers) - then we should definitely change our approach. Like I said - I'm assuming you explained more somewhere - I just can't get to your site.
Ah, but the Flab 5 did not win the silent auction basketball bid.
Money must exchange hands before I allow outsiders to see my various body parts flailing around, unfettered and undisciplined, on a basketball court. Be assured that I would disable your team with laughter, Pastor Phil.
I will cheer from the sidelines if you post the silent auction game time.
liberalthorn,
ya know, i've seen comments like yours here & there from others throughout my short blogging history. some have commented regarding our need to 'be a proper testimony' when blogging, others complain of our 'silly bantering'.
these kind of comments get me wondering if in the minds of some, are christians supposed to just be themselves, or are we to act a certain, regimented way in order to get respect as believers?
i'm not asking about our obvious moral/ethical obligations, i'm asking what you (or others critical of our dialoging)think regarding our liberty in Christ, as it has to do with our personalities.
personaly, i endeavor to be myself and not be hypocritical.
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